Curse

Batou of Nine · Jun 17, 2007, 06:59 AM // 06:59

LoL, this whole thread makes me laugh. Out of four pages of posts, has NO ONE actually tested attribute stacking?

NEWS FLASH! ATTRIBUTES ARE CAPPED AT LVL 20!!!
Disclamer: i quickly scimmed all pages, so i may have missed someone already saying this.

I think it even says it somewhere on Gwiki. So at lvl 20, SF is 147 dmg, not anything too overpowered over SF @ lvl 16. Overpowered, not hardly. Helping people a bit in HM? Perhaps. Adds a little more fun, undoubtedly.

Funny how many things people find to complain about, I suggest people like the OP read the latest post by Andrew Patrick...
http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...php?t=10168366
Nuff said really.

Cheers.

Dr Strangelove · Jun 17, 2007, 07:28 AM // 07:28

Quite frankly, it's not that huge a deal. All those nifty damage increasing spells do take a skill slot which could be used for other things. This is on a skillbar already crowded by at least two energy management spell and a rez. Considering how hamstrung elementalists are by recharge times, I don't really see these spells as that big an imbalance. Heck, it's not like you're spiking things in PvE anyway.

Moloch Vein · Jun 17, 2007, 07:36 AM // 07:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by Faer

Not every person who plays Warrior chooses to be a mindless Dolyak Signet spammer.

l2pGWz before you insult people.

Oh, in that case please do post a working warrior build for Hard Mode Deep that does any real damage and doesn't kill you and your team. Then go on and do the same for, oh say, Hard Mode Stygian Veil.

I'm sure warriors everywhere would rejoice and compliment you immensely on your wisdom.

One awesome thing about one of the skills given to the warrior is that it more usable by any class but the warrior. +100 armor... to everyone except the one who needs it.

Kakumei · Jun 17, 2007, 07:56 AM // 07:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by Moloch Vein

Alright, let us go there.

How much damage does the W/A build for Hard Mode Deep do? For that matter, how much damage do the W/E builds for Domain of Anguish do? Please cite the builds and name specifics, I won't do it for you.

Can you tell me, what is the real function of a tank in a high level pve mission?

Oh, and stop insulting people when you clearly have no clue what you're talking about.

Hi hello I didn't notice this topic moved let me get to responding to you

I never said "hey go use a shockaxe in PvE". You made the sweeping statement that all Warriors could do at all is tank, and that is so bluntly untrue it makes my eyes hurt.

Div · Jun 17, 2007, 07:59 AM // 07:59

omg, the day that PvE'rs are complaining about how anet is bad at game balance in PvE because skills are too strong...wtf?

Master Ketsu · Jun 17, 2007, 08:08 AM // 08:08

Im sorry, I just cant take anyone with spongbob avi seriously....

.....

but really, balance in PvE is way uber mongo b0rked as is. PvE is supposed to be random and fun, not balanced...I dont really enjoy it but really only pvp needs true balance.

ArKaiN · Jun 17, 2007, 08:41 AM // 08:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by Batou of Nine

LoL, this whole thread makes me laugh. Out of four pages of posts, has NO ONE actually tested attribute stacking?

NEWS FLASH! ATTRIBUTES ARE CAPPED AT LVL 20!!!
Disclamer: i quickly scimmed all pages, so i may have missed someone already saying this.

I think it even says it somewhere on Gwiki. So at lvl 20, SF is 147 dmg, not anything too overpowered over SF @ lvl 16. Overpowered, not hardly. Helping people a bit in HM? Perhaps. Adds a little more fun, undoubtedly.

Funny how many things people find to complain about, I suggest people like the OP read the latest post by Andrew Patrick...
http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...php?t=10168366
Nuff said really.

Cheers.

WE all know attributes are capped at 20. So what. Intensity doesn't add attributes, it adds +25% DAMAGE.
Do the math. I think you'll find that you can actually cast the equivalent of a fire att 22 SF pretty easily.

Moloch Vein · Jun 17, 2007, 07:05 PM // 19:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kakumei

Hi hello I didn't notice this topic moved let me get to responding to you

I never said "hey go use a shockaxe in PvE". You made the sweeping statement that all Warriors could do at all is tank, and that is so bluntly untrue it makes my eyes hurt.

And you made the sweeping statement that my friend must suck because he didn't do damage, although I did point out that we were doing The Deep together. Hardly any warrior builds for true high level PvE do any real damage. When you made the statement that "warriors are basic damage dealers" that hurt my eyes too, because that is not the function of a warrior at all in a high level area. A warrior does not hold a candle compared to an elementalist or even a necromancer when it comes to PvE damage output.

Ensign · Jun 17, 2007, 07:27 PM // 19:27

"There's Nothing to Fear!" is an Elementalist skill, as you have both the mana and a deep supporting cast to use it with.

It is pure unadulterated retardation.

Intensity is decent but not must-run by any means. It's worth about 1.5 DDs if you cast constantly while it's up. Elemental Lord is the cover enchant of choice now, at least it would be if you could get a decent rank in the thing without stabbing your eyes out in PvE. It'd be close to a must-run, if it weren't such a horrendous grind (r10 Sunspear ~ r1 Faction).

Peace,
-CxE

The Great Al · Jun 18, 2007, 01:06 AM // 01:06

The past few months, for the first time in GW's history, Elems finally are the best damage dealers in the game, which is what they should be. The first year/year and a half of Guild Wars, it more or less seemed that Elem spells were so expensive not because they were powerful, but just because of the fact that Elems happen to have twice as much energy as other classes. But not anymore - finally the damage output is proportionate to the energy costs. I admittedly play Elem basically all of the time, but I feel like unwanted classes should be buffed before the more popular classes are nerfed.

Ensign · Jun 18, 2007, 01:12 AM // 01:12

Eles have been the best AoE damage characters since Nightfall came out 8 months ago. Running a little late to the party are we?

The Great Al · Jun 18, 2007, 01:15 AM // 01:15

eh, I shouldn't have said 'the past few months'....it actually doesn't seem like almost a year since NF came out. The bolded part of my post was the main point, by year/year and a half I basically meant prophecies + factions.

Thom Bangalter · Jun 18, 2007, 01:16 AM // 01:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ensign

"There's Nothing to Fear!" is an Elementalist skill, as you have both the mana and a deep supporting cast to use it with.

It is pure unadulterated retardation.

Intensity is decent but not must-run by any means. It's worth about 1.5 DDs if you cast constantly while it's up. Elemental Lord is the cover enchant of choice now, at least it would be if you could get a decent rank in the thing without stabbing your eyes out in PvE. It'd be close to a must-run, if it weren't such a horrendous grind (r10 Sunspear ~ r1 Faction).

Peace,
-CxE

really? I figured "there's nothing to fear" was a necro skill, But I haven't checked out the soul reaping change. Intensity also looks like an SS skill to me, but I'm going to hate to grind out elemental lord, particularly since I have the luxon title (2) and everyone else I play with is kurzick.

XvArchonvX · Jun 18, 2007, 02:37 AM // 02:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thom Bangalter

really? I figured "there's nothing to fear" was a necro skill, But I haven't checked out the soul reaping change. Intensity also looks like an SS skill to me, but I'm going to hate to grind out elemental lord, particularly since I have the luxon title (2) and everyone else I play with is kurzick.

Call me crazy, but I think "There's Nothing to Fear" is a Para skill. I found great success using it in a build in conjunction with Critical Agility and "Go For The Eyes". The IAS allows GftE to be spammed more often which serves to both keep Crit Agility up and give energy regen through Leadership for TNtF (which also gives an energy return to reduce net cost since it's a shout). I used the skill in Grand Court of Sebelkeh and was able to spam it at recharge without ever encountering energy problems.

An Ele might have the energy storage to afford the skill, but they don't have the energy regen to keep using it unless they devote their elite to something like Ether Prodigy. A Necro may be a good use for it as well, but I don't have enough experience with the new SR to say for sure how true this is.

Moloch Vein · Jun 18, 2007, 08:43 AM // 08:43

Intensity does nothing to SS.

The introduction of these skills unbalance the game even more in the Ele's favor.

Elemental Lord will be a staplestone in elementalist builds. Intensity, probably too, one must at least admit that these two skills are both mainly useful by elementalists.

Signet of Corruption is weak. Necrosis is usable by any class and not too damn good anyway. There's nothing to fear is usable mainly by elementalists or BiP necros.

The dervish skill Eternal Aura is horribly unbalanced.

The warrior skill Save yourselves is laughable... 100 armor to everyone except the one who needs it, for a 8a cost.

The mesmer skills change nothing.

The monk skills must be nerfed, makes game silly easy. At least they are MONK skills.

Don't have the time to go through this more but... it is painfully obvious that the only people to really benefit from these new skills are E, D, Mo and A. The addition of the sunspear skills combined with the armor nerf makes warriors less attractive than ever.

Necromancers should have gotten a skill to boost death magic to finally make minions viable again in most high level areas where the monsters simply make a snack out of your bone horror. I know the meat wall argument but those are rare situations in gimmick builds (I refuse to consider the Barrage/pet Tombs build anything but gimmick).

Warriors should've gotten something to cement their status as tanks, instead I do believe D will take over in DoA now.

prism2525 · Jun 18, 2007, 10:42 AM // 10:42

In all due honesty, I'm getting FED UP with all this whining...

back in the day eles were WAY underpowered. Anet fixed that with NF.

Now PvE (and mind they are PvE ONLY!) skills are too powerful? Gimme a break. I like the ele skills and can't wait to rack enough faction to get the kurzick/luxon ones.

PS: I'm an ele primary.

Moloch Vein · Jun 18, 2007, 11:21 AM // 11:21

This isn't whining, it's constructive criticism.

Whining generally pertains to complaining about something that is bad. Several of these skills are too good, so good that they are in fact game breaking.

Ensign · Jun 18, 2007, 11:24 AM // 11:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thom Bangalter

really? I figured "there's nothing to fear" was a necro skill, But I haven't checked out the soul reaping change.

It's ok on a Curses guy, but a good bit more questionable since those characters have such backloaded emanagement and pay so much up front to get out the Spiteful / Reckless / EB. I guess if you don't mind going into your high set early and often, but you're basically relying on Soul Reaping to cast your hexes and that's a really questionable plan.

For a Minion Master the skill is pretty awesome though - yes, it does affect your Minions. Plus your energy gets smoothed out by minion deaths. Energy is still kinda tight if you're going all-in on Fiends, but you make it work for this effect.

On a Mind Blast bar, the skill is Pure Gold.

Quote:

Originally Posted by XvArchonvX

Call me crazy, but I think "There's Nothing to Fear" is a Para skill.

Why would you ever run a Paragon primary when you can take the valuable part of the entire profession and stick it on a much deeper, stronger, and more robust PvE character in the form of a single, attributeless skill? I can put TNTF on an Ele or Necro, along with Spiteful or Fire AoEs, and get all the benefits of a Paragon, while freeing up that slot on the party bar for a much stronger profession.

Quote:

Originally Posted by XvArchonvX

I found great success using it in a build in conjunction with Critical Agility and "Go For The Eyes".

I think that's the real benefit of running a Paragon primary - that you get to use both Critical Agility and TNTF when playing with heroes and henchmen. As you add players it gets more questionable though, because you only benefit from one copy of TNTF in the party - and if someone else can run it without cost (and most midline casters can) then the Paragon is just worse than a Warrior or Dervish.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Moloch Vein

Necromancers should have gotten a skill to boost death magic to finally make minions viable again in most high level areas

If you missed it the first time, TNTF works on Minions.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Moloch Vein

Warriors should've gotten something to cement their status as tanks, instead I do believe D will take over in DoA now.

Nothing the Dervish gained makes it more attractive for tanking DoA. I still haven't heard why Ele tanks aren't the best anymore (I think they've had that cemented for a while), and they only became further entrenched as the dominant DoA tank with the Stoneflesh nerf.

Peace,
-CxE

Moloch Vein · Jun 18, 2007, 11:48 AM // 11:48

Ensign, exactly what elementalist tank build are we discussing for DoA?

XvArchonvX · Jun 18, 2007, 01:27 PM // 13:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ensign

Why would you ever run a Paragon primary when you can take the valuable part of the entire profession and stick it on a much deeper, stronger, and more robust PvE character in the form of a single, attributeless skill? I can put TNTF on an Ele or Necro, along with Spiteful or Fire AoEs, and get all the benefits of a Paragon, while freeing up that slot on the party bar for a much stronger profession.

Personally, I'd rather have my eles working as a SF Steamroller. A Mind Blast ele could probably run it, but I really think that a couple SF eles is really the way to go in PvE. If an ele is running mind blast, they will have to spend a good bit of time doing single target damage with MB and limit their AoE to non-elite skills that can cause scatter. A Paragon is single target damage in the first place and not only gives support damage with a spear, but the spam of GFTE will also assist the party in another way to increase damage output. A GFTE Para can also make Crit Agility a more legitamate option for other members in the party.

If the Para goes /W, then they have access to "Save Yourself", which I really believe is another Para skill. A warrior's adrenaline should be used to deal damage and a Para's adrenal should be used for support. Not only is Save Yourself a support skill, but also a skill that just makes more sense to use on a midline character as opposed to a frontline tank which will draw some aggro simply by virtue of being one of the first to aggro enemies.

TNTF may very well be a necro skill as well, but I haven't gotten enough experience with the new SR yet to really have much of an opinion on that.

@ Moloch: He's refering to an Obsidian Flesh tank for DoA. The build is essentially an earth ele build that uses skills like Stoneflesh Aura and Obsidian Flesh to be able to tank both physical damaging enemies and spell casters.